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And I have actually been proud to fulfill them and honored to welcome them. Chairman Leahy. As my last inquiry, in some of the statement this early morning there has been a pointer that, of training course, simply with all the hundreds of billions, trillions of bucks prepared to invest, you need to just go somewhere else.

Stenger. I would inform you that in this environment the capacity to raise capital for the important things we are doing would have-- it is impossible to do so in a manner that would allow us as properly and as promptly develop things we have actually done. You can borrow money if you have obtained half down.

I can have borrowed half of that if I had the $12 million in money to set up. Everybody knows that, yes, banks have cash to finance as long as you have actually got half of it in your pocket before you request for the other half. That is not just how business works nowadays.

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You are speaking from a real-world experience, not from a think container experience. I will certainly leave that simply as an unjustified comment from the Chairman. Legislator Grassley. Senator Grassley. Thanks. I want to be liable in this issue of undocumented workers. I want to confess that we only have unscientific information, however I would love to ask you to what level you have to go or do go to see to it that the facilities make sure that the investments do not create tasks for individuals here illegally.

Mr. Stenger. Senator, I am a hands-on owner of an organization, and I am on-property every single day. We have worked with-- as I claimed, at the Optimal we had 550 building workers on our project. The marching orders that I offered to my team is that we are to employ regional firms in almost every instance to do all of the building and construction.

They are comprised of 10, 15, 20, 30 workers. They are from our neighborhood regions. They are Vermonters. They are profiting directly from the investment. We are a hands-on facility. I understand the employees, I understand their family members, and we have actually been able to employ-- with these last 3 years of dreadful financial chaos, we have been able to employ practically every building worker in our region and the surrounding counties.

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locals. They stay in the area. Their families exist. They are purchased the areas, and they are all U.S. workers. Senator Grassley. You do not need to use e-verify, however I want to know whether or not you do. Mr. Stenger. We do. Senator Grassley. You do.

Thank you. Mr. North, along the same lines of the concern I asked him, has your research shown instances various other-- and I only provided one instance, so I desire to confess that and be accountable concerning it-- of centers employing undocumented people? Mr. North. That kind of data is really tough to obtain from USCIS, and I should claim that what we do know about several check here of the internal features of that firm as for this program is concerned associates with cases in which the personnel has claimed no to an application of some kind and then the regional center or the specific business owner has actually mosted likely to the Administrative Appeals Office-- which becomes part of the agency-- and there we get papers, we obtain a hearing police officer informing us what is going on in that specific instance.



This is a bad application." There is a quantity of negative applications out there, yet just when that process obtains prior to an administrative legislation judge do we see a lot in the method of detail. Currently, there was one instance that you pointed out, and let me simply elaborate on that particular a little bit.

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Do not take too long since I desire to ask one more couple concerns. Go in advance and promptly finish. Mr. North. The dairy farm had claimed 17 workers, and they entered it, and the judge discovered that 16 of them were illegals. Currently, that is the one example I have, and it is a great instance.

Okay. I am mosting likely to ask different inquiries of each of the 3 of you, however it takes care of this problem. As I stated in my opening declaration, I am concerned regarding the prospective loophole that enables capitalists to withdraw their financial investment in regional facilities after obtaining their permit.

Divine, are you aware of any circumstances in which a capitalist withdrew the investment and left right away after obtaining a permit? And if you are, or if you believe it is a problem, do you think that it is a loophole that should be closed? Mr. Divine. I would claim that the majority of the financiers, if you asked them what are their objectives, they would certainly state, "I intend to obtain a permit, and I intend to keep it.

Mr. Divine. Let me ask Mr. Stenger, is it usual for a capitalist in your experience to withdraw his or her financial investment instantly after obtaining an environment-friendly card? Mr.

Senator, no.

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